The Shmata Queen & The Beach

The Shmata Queen and I have an ongoing debate about whether she grew up near The beach. The premise is based upon the misguided belief that a Great Lake constitutes a beach.

Technically I suppose that you could try and make the case that a lake offers a beach.
beach (bēch) pronunciation
  1. The shore of a body of water, especially when sandy or pebbly.
  2. The sand or pebbles on a shore.
  3. The zone above the water line at a shore of a body of water, marked by an accumulation of sand, stone, or gravel that has been deposited by the tide or waves.
I'd disagree with this and say that you can claim waterfront property, but a real beach needs the ocean. A real beach has sand that is created by the pounding of the Saltwater waves and not those of a sinking ship (Edmund Fitzgerald) Please note that all maritime questions can be directed to our resident sailor David. You can find him at Treppenwitz.

That concludes this less than serious post. Hog farmers, sailors, math geeks, art majors and business people are dismissed.


Stacey said...

I most certainly grew up on a beach.

P.S. Am grateful I grew up there and not in Los Smogeles.

Stacey said...

And in case you didn't bother going to the link:

"As the largest natural sand BEACH in Ohio, Headlands offers recreation for swimmers and sunbathers."

B2 said...

Nope. Saying "the beach" means salt water. Atlantic, Pacific... not a Great Lake. I vote with you, Jack. (Coastal snobbery abounds in the blogiverse.)

Air Time said...

A beach has sand and water. Michigan has a ton of them. I'm with Shmatta queen here.

Jack Steiner said...

I am not surprised to see a couple of midwesterners try and make the case for being near a beach. Unfortunately neither of you have a clue as to what a beach really is.

B2 is correct, Salt water is required.

kristine said...

i have equal access to beach and lake in new york. and i say "beach" if referring to the ocean and "lake" if referring to the, well..lake.

BUT. the great lakes are friggin HUGE! they totally look like an ocean, and if i grew up there i'd probably call it a beach.

this is a tough call. the only solution is a duel.

Stacey said...

"B2 is correct, Salt water is required."

B2 is wrong. And so are you.

beach ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bch)
The shore of a body of water, especially when sandy or pebbly.
The sand or pebbles on a shore.
The zone above the water line at a shore of a body of water, marked by an accumulation of sand, stone, or gravel that has been deposited by the tide or waves.

Jack Steiner said...


It is so clear that you are in over your head here. A man can wear a dress and makeup but he is a still a man.

Stacey said...

"It is so clear that you are in over your head here."

The only thing clear is what a fool you are.

It is obvious to anyone with a brain that a beach doesn't have anything to do with saltwater.

Jack Steiner said...

Insecure midwestern chicks are hot.

Anonymous said...

I gotta go with Stacey on this one. When we were out at sea we used to take our breaks up on 'steel beach', meaning the flight deck or somewhere out of the way in the ships superstructure. When I lived in New York many of my friends used to go hang out on their respective 'tar beaches', meaning the roof of the apartment building. Simply put, beach has nothing to do with salt... and sometimes doesn't even relate to water. As my final proof I give you my typical golf shot that soars straight towards the green but lands short... you guessed it... in what my golf buddies called 'the beach'.

Stacey said...

Woohoo, the sailor weighed in and confirmed that Jack is completely wrong. Thank you, Trep!

Anchors aweigh!!

PsychoToddler said...

The resident Hog Farmer replies:

There are beaches and then there are BEACHES. As someone who grew up near Jones Beach and Long Beach, and who now lives near Bradford Beach, I have to say that Great Lake beaches in no way compare to Ocean Beaches. And for my money, there are way too many rocks on the Lake Michigan beaches.

But they are all technically beaches.

Bill said...

Okay Folks...

I grew up near Wasaga Beach the longest Fresh water BEACH in the world 14-kilometres,on Georgian Bay, part of Lake Huron. The Bay is larger than any bay in the eastern US (ocean or not)except for the gulf of Mexico.

The BEACH is clean white sand and on a good day you can walk out over 2 Miles before it gets to deep to stand.

To witness a clear skied summer storm that stands the blue water up to a height of 6.5 meters off shore is like looking over an ocean rather than a lake. When the water is rough the waves break ferociously over the sandbars at a frequency of up to 1 every 4 seconds.

Waves have been known to cross the sand bar at Beach One taking cars and pickup trucks with them.

I've seen three Oceans and more lakes than I can remember and nothing looks more like the Ocean than Wasaga Beach.
The Lake & Bay is so big there is no way you can see across it even on a clear day.

I suspect physically the only thing missing seems to be Salt.

So there......... (-:

Stacey said...

Sounds beautiful, Bill.

Jack Steiner said...


Don't go crazy, Trep loves the Red Sox and everyone knows that their fans aren't quite right. Bill, I have been to the Georgian Bay and although I do not remember specific names of the places it was beautiful. And you are correct, the lake is massive, but there is a reason you compare it to an ocean. And we all know that an ocean is where you find a beach.

And we also know that if it was really interesting or exciting to spend time at the lake's waterfront Hollywood would have never created Baywatch, it would have been called Lakewatch. That is so exciting I am already snoring.

Sand, waves, sun, saltwater= beach.

Bill said...

(read all of the comment before you delete it)

RRRR.... Frustration

Jack your a big doofus, May a huge wave sweep you and your BEACH Definition into the LAKE (-:

May you may you get lost so far from shore that you can't see land and drown in Fresh Clean non-salt water. (-:

Sorry just had to trade my Argument Ad Hominem for your Petitio Principii, Q would have been disgusted.

And you can smile because, much as I will defend my Great Lakes Beaches there is nothing more impressive than an Ocean storm on a rocky Beach. (-:

ha. ha. ha......

Jack Steiner said...

Now Bill is this the behavior of a pacifist. Are you encouraging violent behavior. ;)

BTW, Saltwater can be clean too. Hey, a lake can be pretty, it can and often is beautiful but it is not a place where you buy beachfront property.

Jack Steiner said...

P.S. I rarely ever delete a comment.

... Is the Window to Our Soul said...

I have to go with the any salt water as the beach, including a bay (for those us in the Delmarva area.) Around here, where the building boom is out of control and very competitive, it's not uncommon to see advertisements for lakeside property, i.e., drainage pond.'s hysterical.

Jack Steiner said...


It is good to see that I am not the only one who gets it.

Michael Suddard said...

Still waiting to see how a freshwater Beach is not a beach.

Not seing in the original post. Just a dictionary definition proving the writer wrong. A little substance (i.e. from a university beach expert).

I also don't understand what the Edmund Fitzgerald has to do with beaches either.

I would also point out that there are thousands of boats that have been sunk in the Pacific (just ask the U.S. and Japanese Navies during World War 2) and Atlantic oceans (just ask the British, American, Canadian, German, etc. about the number of sunken boats) so again I ask what a sunken boat has to do with beaches?

As for ocean beaches, I currently live in New York City near Brighton Beach/Coney Island. In fact today I was at the beach and am now thinking about the sand quality of the the above beach and the Rockaway penisula of New York City to that of Sandbanks Provincial Park in Ontario (on Lake Ontario) and would Sandbanks has the advantage in the sand comparison.

I would even put Sandbanks Sand up against the sand near Tampa, Florida any day and would say it is better.

But I digress, I am looking for substance from the initial writer to prove his point because he has already proven mine with his dictionary definiton.

Jack Steiner said...


If you don't get it now there might not be any help for you. ;)

Michael Suddard said...

Quite the contrary.

Jack doesn't seem to know that he has already proven the point that there is a beach on the lake and ocean. This despite the writer wanting to say that lake beaches are not really beaches. Just check out the dictionary definition in his original posting.

Jack, you really haven't proven your point. The sand at Sandbanks provincial park and others has as good a sand as any other. Q, on his blog, Simply put, has even taken pictures of Sand Banks Provincial Park. I have even suggested that the sand on the beaches of Sand Banks would be even better than those of Coney Island/Brighton and Rockaway Beaches on the Atlantic Ocean. This despite Sand Banks not being pounded by salt water.

I also don't see any expert's quotation supporting your point of requiring saltwater to pound to make sand. You just merely point us to someone from another blog ("resident sailor") but don't give us his take on your argument in your original post.

Maybe David would like to respond to your thoughts. Oh wait, he did in one of his comments and totally contradicts what you say! David, you say is an expert on "maritime life" has even disagreed with your statement and agreed with someone elses (Stacy).

Hmm...maybe it is Jack that still hasn't learned. Both the dictionary and "our resident sailor [and Jack's Maritime life expert] David" have disagreed with his argument. So maybe Jack's argument has yet to hold water...both salt or fresh water.

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